Research Corner - Q&A Hyperlordotic Dancer by Joshua Rubin | Date Released : 27 Feb 2008 2 comments Print Close Question: I have a client who is hyperlordotic and a dancer. I remember hearing something about hyperlordosis being beneficial to dancers as it can aid their flexibility and ability to obtain and hold certain positions. What are your thoughts on this? Is this also relevant to gymnasts? And lastly, are there any other groups where “incorrect posture” is considered an advantage? Many thanks. Answer: Posture: The position from which movement begins and ends. If you begin with poor posture, you end with poor posture. The end result is faulty motor engram patterns, injury, inflammation and pain. So when it comes to posture, we have two types: static and dynamic. Both of these should be assessed, as well as integrated together into a client’s program. There are a lot of ways you can assess the body and spine, but let’s keep it simple. All three curves have a normal range of 30 to 35 degrees. You can use inclinometers to gather your spinal measurements, as well as using a plumb line. But keep in mind, if you are not measuring a client’s spine with inclinometers, and you are just judging her lordosis on observation, you are just guessing. Here’s why: Let’s say you are working with a large person who has nice overly developed glutes. With static posture, this would show up as a red flag in the lumbar spine, meaning you would think you see an increased lumbar lordosis. This is when you use your other assessments of the lumbar spine to actually find out which way the spine is going. But if you just look at the person, she would give the appearance of having a lumbar lordosis, when all along all she has is large glutes. So the bottom line is, if you are not assessing, you are guessing! I would find a skilled Physical Therapist, MAT practitioner, CHEK practitioner or Physiotherapist that you can work along with. Having an increased lumbar lordosis would allow most people to have increased lumbar extension and decreased lumbar flexion, but this is not always the case. Someone might have an increased lumbar lordosis with instability, maybe at L4-L5. The segment above and below will become hypomobile to compensate. As well, it can go the other way around. If L4-L5 is hypomobile, the segment above and below would become hypermobile. You can assess this by measuring all spinal segment flexion and extension movements with an inclinometer. Once again, I would refer out. As well, I would find out what is going on at the other spinal segment levels as the entire body is connected. Maybe her lumbar lordosis is coming from instability of the SIJ, tightness of the psoas, inflammation in the gut or other organs, limited thoracic extension (required in gymnastics and ballet), so she compensates at her lumbar segments, increased cervical extension and so forth. I have found that typically most people view the one site of pain or dysfunction as the dysfunctional site. But in the end, that is the branch, and the root of the dysfunction is coming from somewhere else. The first thing I would do is assess. This will allow you to know HER body exactly, so you can design an effective stretching and exercise program. As well, I would realign her body, as you don’t want to create poor posture to work from. As I stated above, if you begin with poor posture, you end with poor posture! Secondly, the goal with this client is not to create an increased lumbar lordosis but to create optimal lumbar and thoracic mechanics. This means optimal range of motion in the sagittal plane (flexion and extension). This will allow this client to get into the positions that are required for her life and sport. How do you do this? Let’s say she has an increased lumbar lordosis (i.e., lower cross syndrome). Lower Cross Syndrome: (ant tilt >5-7 or 7-10, >35 lumbar curve, hips flexed, hyperext knees, valgus at knees) Short: psoas, RF, adductors, TFL, sartorious, multifidus, ES, lats, QLO Long: glutes, hams, lower ab, EO, IO, TVA Injuries: LBP, SIJ, knees and ankles, hamstring, degeneration Let’s say you want to stretch the short and strengthen the elongated muscles. Once there, you want to use movements, joint mobilizations, soft tissue work and nutrition to ensure optimal joint mechanics in the sagittal plane. But keep in mind that all dysfunctions and short muscles are not always tight. They can also be taut (too lengthened) or shortened secondary to a weakness. Example: Let’s just say this athlete has GI inflammation, which will shut off her inner unit and create visceroptosis (organs hanging). This in turn will create hyperlordosis, increased anterior pelvic tilt and so forth. But is her dysfunction muscular in origin or is it nutritional? Is her dysfunction from weakness? Just some food for thought! Off the top of my head, the only dysfunctions that actually create poor posture would be a spinal stenosis. With spinal stenosis, going into extension closes down the foramen and puts stress on the cord, which equals pain! The goal with these clients is to actually work them with all exercises on the flexion side of neutral, strengthening their legs and extensor chain to compensate for their weakness. The weakness is that you cannot bring them into neutral, as this will cause pain. By no means do you want to create posture where they are fully flexed, but you might want their lumbar curve around 27 to 30 degrees, where normal is 30 to 35. This will ensure function without pain. Also, working on strengthening their legs and back will ensure stability in this position. Hopefully I have answered your question and got you thinking! Back to top About the author: Joshua Rubin Josh Rubin began his career in the health and fitness industry as an Occupational Therapist on the east coast. After working with the geriatric population for many years, he decided to take his career to the next level. By incorporating his flexibility, exercise and rehabilitation background together, he began working with individuals of all ages within the personal training industry. This is where he found his love for corrective exercise and began his educational journey with the C.H.E.K Institute. As well as developing his clinical skills, in 2002 EastWest Healing and Performance was born. His goal was to provide individuals with an individualized corrective exercise and health/vitality program and educate them along the way. Josh takes a holistic approach to the increased health and vitality when treating physical, mental, emotional and spiritual sickness. He incorporates many Eastern and Western Philosophies to the assessment and treatment of his clients. Josh currently works out of the C.H.E.K Institute in Vista, California as an OTR/L, CHEK 2, NLC 3, Golf Biomechanic, CMTA, NMT and Universal Tao Practitioner. He also volunteers his time once a week to the San Diego Cancer Institute in Vista and Encinitas, California to educate current cancer patients, caregivers and survivors on the importance of nutrition and basic lifestyle principles. He currently works with many schools and gyms in the North SD County area on such topics as Metabolic Typing, Nutrition, Lifestyle Coaching, Posture, Movements in the gym, etc. As well as writing articles for PTontheNET.com, he writes articles for the CHEK Report, local newspapers, and local golf magazines and speaks at local organic grocery markets. He currently is beginning the next journey in his life by attending Pacific College of Oriental Medicine for his Masters in Science in Traditional Chinese Medicine. Full Author Details Related content Content from Joshua Rubin Teen Ballet Dancer Matthew Blair Davis | Articles Classical Dancer Michael Greenhouse | Articles Women’s Posture - Part 1 John Paul Catanzaro | Articles The Principles of Posture Martin Rooney | Articles Teen Gymnast Matthew Blair Davis | Articles Gymnastics and Stunted Growth Mike Demora | Articles Irish Dance Sara Fisher | Articles Flexibility vs. Muscle Balance: The Agonist Antagonist Connection by Rowan Ellis | Videos Functional Balance for Dancers Noah Hittner | Articles Spinal Stenosis Craig Burris | Articles Posture and Body Balance James Crozier | Articles Lower Cross Syndrome Mike Demora | Articles Diabetes and Weight Loss Joshua Rubin | Articles Coughing with Cardio Joshua Rubin | Articles Psoriatic Arthritis Joshua Rubin | Articles Extreme Dieting Joshua Rubin | Articles Cortisol Joshua Rubin | Articles Dermatomyositis Joshua Rubin | Articles Does the Body Cleanse Itself? Joshua Rubin | Articles Itchy Legs When Running Joshua Rubin | Articles Post Virus Nerve Damage Joshua Rubin | Articles Diastasis Recti and Pregnancy Joshua Rubin | Articles Colostomy Joshua Rubin | Articles Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS) Joshua Rubin | Articles Over Developed ESGs Joshua Rubin | Articles Brain Tumor, Reduced Mobility Joshua Rubin | Articles Poor Circulation Joshua Rubin | Articles Hyperlordotic Dancer Joshua Rubin | Articles Crohn's Disease Joshua Rubin | Articles Hernias and Weak Abs Joshua Rubin | Articles Infant Development and Jolly Jumpers Joshua Rubin | Articles Leukemia Joshua Rubin | Articles Hormones and Weight Loss Joshua Rubin | Articles Infant Development and Adult Dysfunction Joshua Rubin | Articles Low Calorie Diet and Weight Loss Joshua Rubin | Articles Healthy Weight Gain Joshua Rubin | Articles Upper Spine Eval (Atlas Test) Joshua Rubin | Articles Post Virus and Weak Muscles Joshua Rubin | Articles TvA Activation Joshua Rubin | Articles Weight Loss After Trauma Joshua Rubin | Articles Lupus Joshua Rubin | Articles Brachial Plexus Injury Joshua Rubin | Articles Cow Colostrum Joshua Rubin | Articles The Science Behind Adipose Tissue Joshua Rubin | Articles Sjogren's Syndrome Joshua Rubin | Articles Guillain-Barret Syndrome Joshua Rubin | Articles Natural Hygiene Principles Joshua Rubin | Articles Beta Blockers and Cardio Joshua Rubin | Articles Fat Return After Liposuction Joshua Rubin | Articles Female STD and Weight Gain Joshua Rubin | Articles Race Car Driver Joshua Rubin | Articles Juice Plus and Other Related Supplements Joshua Rubin | Articles Sleep Positions and Posture Joshua Rubin | Articles Marijuana as Medicine? Joshua Rubin | Articles Chi to be Healthy Joshua Rubin | Articles Colon Cleansing Joshua Rubin | Articles Deep Sea Diver Joshua Rubin | Articles Are You Fatigued? Joshua Rubin | Articles Email Training for Disabled Client Joshua Rubin | Articles Training While Sick Joshua Rubin | Articles Chiropractic Care Joshua Rubin | Articles Asthma - Part 1 Joshua Rubin | Articles Burn Victim Joshua Rubin | Articles Breath Control and Wind Instruments Joshua Rubin | Articles 24 Hour Poker Player Joshua Rubin | Articles Please login to leave a comment Comments (2) Rubin, Joshua | 08 May 2009, 06:44 AM As for what you have going on, just some exercises and stretches will not do the trick. That is just guessing what you need based off your symptomatology.....which even though these people might be "holisitc," this is still an allopathic approach....treat the symptoms and not the person.There are many reasons why you might be having pain. Of course the DJD in your hip and bone spurs, most likely creating DJD, are the two that pop up. It would be hard for me to give you recs, but I can say stretching based off your pain is dangerous. What is your have an instability, which you most likely do...meaning what if you stretch a muscle that is short because of a weakness?Your profession is continuous and repetative, which if done over and over, out of alignment and with poor motor patterns, leads exactly to what you have going on. A skilled practitioner should assess you and write you and INDIVIDUALIZED program to meet YOUR needs.The key here is not only exercise, but nutrition as well to help with inflammation in the joints and help with healing. As they say "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken S**T!With regards to your condition, anytime there is lack of segmental stability in the body, the body compensates...when there is an instability, there is inc compression, shearing and torsion...which leads to lig, muscle, nervous system, etc compensations...which in time leads to degeneration and pain. The goal here is not only to exercise, but make sure that you are working on your inner unit to help with intrinsic stability, which will help with extrinsic mobility.Josh Rubin Reply Herold, Lee | 07 May 2009, 19:14 PM I'm a group fitness instructor and trainer. This dancers profile sounds a lot like issues I am having personally. I've had chronic pain in my right hip/piriformis, psoas/adductors sartorius and at the groin/pectineus. I quit teaching for about six months and went to a chiropractor/accupuncturist. He had me work on strengthening hamstrings and lower traps, which has helped. I'm teaching again and find that I still get the same pains when I work out hard...I've recently been to see a Phsyical Therapist. He had me do hack style ball squats, short range of motion flexion and extension with xerband, and a few stretches...doing these exercises created pain in my IT band and at the outside of my right knee. Now I am trying KMI structural integrative body work. Jury is still out on whether this is going to fix the problem. What is a CHEK practitioner and a MAT practitioner? How can I find someone like you in my area that can make such an assessment of my body mechanics? I'm currently doing KMI structural integration body work and am learning a lot from him, but I'm wondering now if I am over stretching during my Yoga practice especially in the sacrum, hamstrings and over tilitling my pelvis? I've been teaching for 15 years, I'm 50 have mild osteo arthritis in my right interior hip joint and also in my lower back. I've got small bone spurs on L 4 & L5. Do you know the name of anyone here in the Tampa Florida area that I can contact who is as knowledgeable as you are? Thanks for a great article! Lee Reply Back to top